In this conversation, Daryl and Jacques examine how the professions and their assumed expertise contribute to the systemic failure of institutions to meaningfully respond to the issues and problems they are supposed to 'deal with', particularly also through the ideological and hierarchical power accorded to professional expertise; indeed, how they often aggravate those issue and problems. We are looking at four social/systemic contexts - health, mental health, disaster responses and community development - based on Daryl’s and Jacques' experiences of  working in such institutions and their professionals and on witnessing their collective and individual actions and behaviours; and the two of us sometimes being criticised for not ‘being professional enough’.